Curse

daze · Aug 14, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigma Onkoron

Btw... Probably should have clarified this would be an elite tome trader not regular. =D

Wow that is probably the laziest suggestion ever. Every elite skill is reachable and cappable. If you don't like standing in one spot spamming WTB, then go cap the damn skill. An elite tome trader would destroy the fun of tracking down and obtaining your own elite skills.

first off it would make the end game elites available to every noob with 3k balthazar faction, and also piss the people off who actually put in the footwork for their skills or skillhunter title. Tomes are supposed to be a special find that is why they are so rare of drops.
Weapon mod trainers would make a little more sense.
What i will agree with is maybe giving tomes a price value in game kinda like gold weapons(you can sell gold weapons at any merch but you cant buy them)

MithranArkanere · Aug 14, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

For Elite Tomes only is even worse.

The only trader left missing is the Weapon upgrade trader.

Yawgmoth · Aug 14, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

I see more and more completely clueless people in this thread.

Tome Trader would NOT make prices go down!
You would be surprised but some regular tomes would be ABOVE 1k at trader!
That's because all the trader does is reflecting the real market average buy/sell prices, he doesn't manipulate the prices.

And any 'noob' with 3k balthazar faction CAN ALREADY get ANY elite skill by just buying an Elite Tome from someone - it just takes some TIME to go to a town and WTB spam. Trader NPC would only help by saving the TIME. The price of elite tome at trader would be HIGHER than if you bought it from a human seller though.

MithranArkanere · Aug 14, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Still, they are invaluable items, like the Hero armor pieces.
They can't be sold in traders.

Yawgmoth · Aug 14, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

What's the problem in giving them a 1g merch value, like dyes have?

Snow Bunny · Aug 14, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Kamadan's flooded with people selling tomes

MithranArkanere · Aug 14, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

What's the problem in giving them a 1g merch value, like dyes have?

Dyes drop in normal mode.

Yawgmoth · Aug 14, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Dyes drop in normal mode.

And this matters because?

daze · Aug 14, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

I see more and more completely clueless people in this thread.

Tome Trader would NOT make prices go down!
You would be surprised but some regular tomes would be ABOVE 1k at trader!
That's because all the trader does is reflecting the real market average buy/sell prices, he doesn't manipulate the prices.

And any 'noob' with 3k balthazar faction CAN ALREADY get ANY elite skill by just buying an Elite Tome from someone - it just takes some TIME to go to a town and WTB spam. Trader NPC would only help by saving the TIME. The price of elite tome at trader would be HIGHER than if you bought it from a human seller though.

Still the dumbest idea ever, while we are at it, lets add Weapon mod traders, and what about Armbrace traders. What other traders could we think of to nerf actual exploring. Oooh Zkey traders that would be awesome
Elite tomes are supposed to be rare and they are not meant for any noob with 3k balthazar faction. But just like every other rare item, they are able to be purchased from players in town. Adding the trader would totally extinguish the rarity of the item.
With the same line of specious reasoning, Since you can buy minipets from any player in the game(it just takes longer), why not add a minipet trader?
My only point is that Elite tomes were designed to be somewhat of a rare item or trophy for actually playing in HM. Seems to me that people who want HM items to be easily available to everybody in the game are too lazy to go to HM themselves and "Earn them"

/NOTSIGNED because it is a bad idea

Yawgmoth · Aug 14, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Still the dumbest idea ever, while we are at it, lets add Weapon mod traders, and what about Armbrace traders. What other traders could we think of to nerf actual exploring.
Elite tomes are supposed to be rare and they are not meant for any noob with 3k balthazar faction. But just like every other rare item, they are able to be purchased from players in town. Adding the trader would totally extinguish the rarity of the item.
With the same line of specious reasoning, Since you can buy minipets from any player in the game(it just takes longer), why not add a minipet trader?

/NOTSIGNED because it is a bad idea

Failpost is full of fail.

Give at least 1 solid argument why a *straight trade improvement* is bad.

Trade improvements are just that - trade improvements - they are meant to improve trading of items already tradeable.
Be it a weapon mod trader or skill tome trader or even better - a full blown Auction House or Xunlai Marketplace, they're always improvements, not nerfs.

Even a minipet trader would be a straight improvement from what we got now, but ofcourse it wouldn't be the most elegant solution for that.

Do you really prefer to have all trading to be reduced to primitive WTS/WTB spamming and wasting long long hours for that?
I'd much rather quickly drop everything into a trader and go and actually play the game more than WTB/WTS.

daze · Aug 14, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Failpost is full of fail. <<<Now thats just funny>>>

Do you really prefer to have all trading to be reduced to primitive WTS/WTB spamming and wasting long long hours for that?
I'd much rather quickly drop everything into a trader and go and actually play the game more than WTB/WTS.

No, But maybe i can word it differently because you obviously missed the point. Even the creator of this thread realizes it would be a slap in the face to Hard mode.

The idea is to not resort all trading to WTS/WTB spammage. The point is This game needs RARE items like Minipets, certain gold items and yes ELITE TOMES.
Im sure that we are all fully aware that they can be purchased from most players in town, but in no way does that mean a merchant should be created for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Give at least 1 solid argument why a *straight trade improvement* is bad. .

The reasons have already been listed but Failblogger Failed to listen.

1. They are meant to be rare items
2. They would make it too easy to get elite skills which are really meant to be capped. Or on the rare occasion EARNED in hard mode through FINDING a tome.
3. Elite tomes are HARD MODE items which means.... im sure you can figure this out
4. Making Elite tomes too easy to access would result in the whole purpose of the placement of the elite skills being in certain areas totally destroyed. They put certain elite skills at the end of the game for a reason.

In a perfect Guild world, Elite tomes wouldnt even be available for player to player trading, they would be customized.

My point remains unscathed: Leave the rare items to be rare items and let common items be found at the merchants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Failpost is full of fail.

I love that you wrote that, It reeks of desperation.

I really dont even know why im wasting my time in this thread anyways. There is no chance of an elite trader ever being added to the game. Good thing ANet realizes it is a stupid idea

Yawgmoth · Aug 15, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

You fail...
...to realise that introduction of a trader npc doesn't change the Rarity of items at all! Learn the basics, learn how the traders work. They only sell items players sold to them, they don't generate them out of thin air.
(it's not 100% accurate as under certain circumstances trader npc can do it, but this is not common knowledge, officially he shouldn't, it doesn't unbalance the game and it's not the right time to discuss it).

Tomes aren't meant to be rare. They never said they are. Loads of overfarmed tomes in my inventory don't agree with you.
If tomes are really meant to be rare, then analogically Black Dyes certainly are meant to be rare aswell, but they aren't excluded from Trader. Oh, and Lightbringer Scrolls got added to Scroll Trader despite being 'rare' and Exclusive reward from an Elite Area.

Tomes already changed the way people acquire their already unlocked skills - adding a trader wouldn't change this any further - it would only save us some time we now have to waste on WTB spam.

Tomes and Elite Tomes aren't only Hard Mode items - they also drop from Zaishen Chest.
And guess what - PvP players don't usually want to waste time on WTS'ing them, they would much rather sell them to an npc for a price based on real market price, or even better, sell them in something like an Auction House.

Oh and your vision of a 'perfect Guild world' sound terribly uncool. Imho it should be more like this:

In a perfect GW world there would be a fullblown Auction House / Xunlai Marketplace - a fast and easily accessible trading solution allowing trading of everything that can be put into trade window, and WTB/WTS spamming would not be necessary for anything.

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 15, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

i agree with yawgmoth.
having a more convenient way to buy and sell things is not bad.

daze · Aug 15, 2008, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

i agree with yawgmoth.
having a more convenient way to buy and sell things is not bad.

the auction house is a great idea.
But i have my opinion on what should remain a rare items. Just because you may or may not have tons of tomes in your inventory that would say i am wrong. I have a storage full of rare items.

Answer this question and then i will really see where you come from

Do you think that there should be a green weapon trader? My reason that there should be one is because you can already get them from spamming WTB/WTS so why not add a green weapon trader. They are obviously not rare items because my storage is full of them.
Now if your answer is yes there should be a green weapons trader then i am done with you and this silly thread.
And if your answer is no there shouldnt be a green weapons trader then you are nothing more than a hypocrite.
for the record i dont agree with anything i said in that previous paragraph, im just using the same argument as failboy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

If tomes are really meant to be rare, then analogically Black Dyes certainly are meant to be rare aswell, but they aren't excluded from Trader.

Im sorry but that example is a failure as well. The big difference between Elite tomes and black dyes is that any monster from any area in any campaign can drop a black dye, while only a boss in HM can drop an elite tome.

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 15, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Answer this question and then i will really see where you come from

Do you think that there should be a green weapon trader? My reason that there should be one is because you can already get them from spamming WTB/WTS so why not add a green weapon trader. They are obviously not rare items because my storage is full of them.
Now if your answer is yes there should be a green weapons trader then i am done with you and this silly thread.
And if your answer is no there shouldnt be a green weapons trader then you are nothing more than a hypocrite.
for the record i dont agree with anything i said in that previous paragraph, im just using the same argument as failboy.

i absolutely agree that there should be a green weapon trader. i would not be opposed to a trader for every single tradable item in the game. convenient, consistent trading options are always an improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

the auction house is a great idea.
But i have my opinion on what should remain a rare items. Just because you may or may not have tons of tomes in your inventory that would say i am wrong. I have a storage full of rare items.

implementing a trader would NOT in any way change the rarity of the items that they sell. traders do not just poof up items that they sell; they get them from players that sell stuff to them. tomes are already obtainable for anybody with enough money in kamadan. a trader would simply change the tome-buying process from spamming "WTB Elite Ele Tome!!!!" to talking to the trader and buying a tome that somebody else sold at some other time. more convenient ways to buy and sell are good for an economy.

daze · Aug 15, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

I see where you are coming from, It is very logical and viable. I also respect you for not flaming or disrespecting someone with a difference of opinion by calling them "clueless' or whatever.
It seems like what you are suggesting is more like an auction trader. Sounds like a good alternative to player to player interactions. I am curious how you think that would go. Lets say i have a green ghostly staff i want to auction off. Do you think that i would get paid a fixed amount upon depositing item to the trader, or would i get paid after the highest bidder "won" the item?

Yawgmoth · Aug 15, 2008, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Don't compare a Green item trader with a Tome trader, they're sooo much different things it's beyond any comparison.

Just imagine a completely new player starting his adventure with GW.

He goes to a big town and sees many Trader NPCs. He sees a Skill Tome Trader, but he quickly realises that he needs to have the skills unlocked first and that Elite Tomes prices are way out of his range. So he moves forward, nothing bad happened, his gameplay experience not affected.

Now he gets to an Unique Weapon Trader NPC. Even this name makes him think 'wtf?'. He looks closely and sees a long long list of 100s of different perfect Green items, most of which come as cheap as 500-2,000g. He can afford to buy 2 or 3 of them right away! He so quickly realises how terrible the economy of this game is. When that player will get his first Green drop himself, the coolness factor of it will be greatly diminished by him already knowing that it's just "oh, that 650g greenie"...

And I'm not even getting into how terrible would be it's effect on low-end and mid-range Gold item market... as if it wasn't already in ruins...

Now if Greens were actually Rare, valuable and highly demanded items, a trader NPC for them wouldn't be such a catastrophe. It would be a straight trading improvement without negative sides. Just like a Skill Tome trader would be, if added right now. That's because Skill Tomes are something completely different than greens - they are consumables - they get removed from the game upon use, they're always in demand and they're traded in large quantities.

I wouldn't be surprised if the trader was sold out of Elite tomes of certain professions most of the time, and I'd expect the npc sell prices of those to stabilise a few plat higher than the average prices in direct player-player trades.
So if the Elite tomes remain as rare as they are now, having a trader won't make less rare or easy to get.

Whoever actually remembers the early days, before Rune Trader was added, should know well how great addition he was and should easily understand why a Tome trader would be just like that.

Sir Seifus Halbred · Aug 15, 2008, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Not signed.

You should earn the elites you get. Going out and and capping them, not buying a elite tome. People survied before they were introduced did they not?

As for normal tomes you can earn those as well. You get them as drops from monsters.

theblackmage · Aug 15, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Seifus Halbred

Not signed.

You should earn the elites you get. Going out and and capping them, not buying a elite tome. People survied before they were introduced did they not?

As for normal tomes you can earn those as well. You get them as drops from monsters.

Wait, you're telling me these AREN'T mean to be traded? Is that why you can't give them to merchants?

daze · Aug 15, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Seifus Halbred

Not signed.

You should earn the elites you get. Going out and and capping them, not buying a elite tome. People survied before they were introduced did they not?

As for normal tomes you can earn those as well. You get them as drops from monsters.

I still agree with you i think elite skills should be earned. And any elite tome should be customized when found. 3k Balthazar faction is very easy for anybody to obtain (especially with factons) and that is all anybody needs to unlock the elite they want.
You can get 3k balth faction before you even hit lvl 20 so elite tomes would be accessible to the newest people in the game.
But having everything just handed to you on a silver platter is the American way right? Convenience is what society strives for. TV dinners, remote controls, delivery, housekeepers, landscapers, cruise control, and then jenny craig so that when your laziness makes you overly obese, you can lose the weight without having to excercise.
That reminds me of a joke... Why cant lesbians diet and wear makeup at the same time???
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Because you cant eat Jenny Craig with Mary Kay on your face